High on the Hog’s Shoshana Guy shares how she finds joy & her mission in life.

Shoshana Guy is a Peabody-award winning producer, whose latest show “High on the Hog: How African American Cuisine Transformed America” premiered to critical acclaim on Netflix just last month. Her next project, to adapt the NY Times’ 1619 Project as a docuseries, will kick off production later this summer. She’s one of the most creative people we know, and we are so lucky that she agreed to (virtually) sit down with us for a wide-ranging interview. We talked about her creative path, cultivating a life where she’s the happiest she’s ever been, and her mission in life. Plus, she shares her advice for you on creating your own joy.

What follows is a condensed and edited version of our conversation.

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Credit: Shoshana Guy — *Credit:* *Shoshana Guy*

Have you always been creative?

I've always been creative. I have a theater degree. I was in theater before I was in journalism. But then I was like, “Do I really want to go through this? Is there nothing else that I can do?” Acting is the kind of craft where if there's really nothing else in the world you can do, you should do that. But if you feel like there's something else you could do, you should go ahead and do that instead. And that's how I came to journalism.

Did you always have a plan for your career?

You know what, things in my life I've always been like, “I think I'll try this.” And then it happens. When I decided I wasn't going to do acting anymore, I said, “Okay, I'm gonna apply to journalism school.” And then I applied to Columbia and I thought “I'm just going to apply to this school because it's in the city I live in. I just want to write some essays [unlike NYU where you have to take the GRE with math requirements].” I got in. Then, I decided to apply for the NBC News associates program. I thought “If I get in, I get in, if I don't, I don't.” And I did. I've worked very, very, very hard in my life. Being a hard worker was drummed into me by my father, but also there's been a certain amount of luck in my life. I think that has followed me, which I am so grateful for.

So you spent 10+ years at NBC after starting right after grad school, what was it like?

NBC had been amazing for me. I mean, I went all over the world. I got a front row seat to history. I got to work with Tom Brokaw. I got to work with Brian [Williams]. You know, they afforded me the ability to buy a house. So it was an amazing experience. But I, at the end of the day, just wasn't satisfied there anymore. I felt like I'd hit my creative ceiling. And to be honest, I felt that I'm a natural leader and they weren't giving me the opportunity to lead. So then I had to go do it somewhere else.

Was it hard to leave?

I think what was harder about it was actually making the decision to go. Once I let go, it wasn't that hard because I've worked really hard and built a reputation for myself. And once I let everybody know I'm looking for work, work came. There were some other things to get used to. I didn't realize how good that health insurance was [laughs], you know just minor details and administrative stuff in your life gets a little more complicated. But I'm so much happier that, you know, I'll put up with the hustle to find health insurance. [Laughs]

Talk to me about your most recent project, High on the Hog. You were the showrunner. What does that mean?

The showrunner is both creative and leadership. So the showrunner runs the whole structure of the show. You do all the hiring, you make sure that it gets to the deadline on time and on budget. The sort of functions of running the show are yours to oversee, but then you're also in charge of executing the overall creative vision of the show. I worked in tandem with Roger Ross Williams who owns the production company and executed his visions for the series. And of course put my own ideas in there and worked with the producers to make sure that it was executed. I was in the field a lot, almost for everything. A lot of the writing is mine. Some of the producers also wrote some of the episodes with me, but the lion’s share of the writing is mine. It's part team leader, creative, but yeah, I'm the boss.

And your next project is pretty big, too. You’re developing the award-winning 1619 Project from the NY Times into a documentary series?

I'm here in the midst of it. I just finished my staffing so we're now quickly hurtling towards full on production in the field, which will start mid-summer. And it’s the biggest project of my career so far. I came to run it because it's coming out of the same shop as High on the Hog. So there's a certain amount of trust that was developed inside of that shop. I'm grateful too, that I have the skill set that would put me in the place where I have an opportunity to run something so prestigious and so important. I’m really honored and humbled.

We used to sit next to each other, and I remember a time you stormed out after a meeting that I wasn’t in, and you made a comment about something you pitched being “Too black” and you walked out of the office...

[laughs] I’m sure I was fighting about editorial, I was always fighting about editorial...

I guess that would have been like what 10 years ago, but to get to the point where a show like High on the Hog is critically acclaimed at this point, at least from everything I've read, it's blowing up -- are we in a different moment?

I think we're absolutely in a different moment. You know, personally, I can feel the different moment. And while the structural racism in this country, the institutionalized racism in this country is still slow to change, I think that the understanding about where we are and how we came here and how we came to be historically, and the truth of the matter that we live in a very racist country, I think people are starting to understand that. I think what happened last summer with George Floyd really brought it to the surface in a way -- who knows why, maybe it was just the the blatant, outrageous lynching in broad daylight that you just couldn't deny. Maybe it was in combination with the fact that people are inside their houses being forced to reflect more. Who knows why we live in the times that we live in. You could say the same thing of the sixties, right? That was the time my mother and father lived in, when King was assassinated and DC was burning. I mean, that's where they met, at protests over the Vietnam war. So, I think every generation has these eras that we live in. What I hope is that out of the sentiment and the feeling and understanding that there will be real change, not just in talking around these issues, but in actual change on a systemic level. That was a long answer to say; I think things are changing, but it's yet to be seen how it will actually impact the structures of the country.

You’ve produced High on the Hog and your next undertaking is the 1619 Project. Do you feel like you’re contributing to that change?

I do feel like I'm a part of it. I think it's my mission in life. We're all here doing something and I think that's what I'm here doing. I'm here to stand up for the truth, to give information to people so that they can make their own decisions. I am deeply honored to stand beside a woman like Nicole Hannah Jones in a fight for what is true, what is historically true about this country. I'm deeply honored to be able to do that. And I'm just gonna work my ass off to make sure that I do her justice. It’s a big team of people that I'm putting together and we -- as a team -- will be able to honor the work that she's doing so that we can contribute to fighting for truth. There's a lot of people right now who are still trying to deny it, still trying to say “This isn't a racist country. This is the greatest nation on Earth.” I know this is a great country, but it's also deeply racist. It comes out of a legacy of slavery. Let's just get to that, and then we can get past it. As one of my heroes, Brian Stevenson says, or his whole concept is you can't have reconciliation without the truth. We can't reconcile until the truth is understood.

This month we’re really digging into “create” as our theme, not just in terms of creativity but of creating a life that feels authentic to you. And it sounds to me that you’ve managed to create a life like that?

Yeah. It really is true. I think for a lot of years I did wake up happy. I was happy going to NBC, I was excited about it. And then I wasn't. I thought to myself, “Wait, why am I there?” There were certain things that just didn't happen in my life for whatever reason. I'm not married, I don't have children. So in that sense, I'm free. I don't have anyone else to take care of but myself. I'm able to make decisions that just involve me. So I was like, “Why am I staying somewhere where I'm not happy?” But it was a scary decision because your identity becomes very wrapped up in your work, especially when you are a career woman, which I am. And who will I be if I'm not a producer for NBC News? When you leave you realize that was ridiculous. It feels like such a different life -- one that I'm so grateful for, but it just ran its course.

What advice would you have for our audience in creating their own authentic life?

I would say be courageous, go for it. Work hard, know the difference between paying your dues and getting paid. As a woman who's in her forties now, and who's hiring people in their twenties and thirties, there's a lot of confusion sometimes where I'm just like, “Wait, you still have to work hard. You’re just starting, I need you to jump through hoops and work hard and put your nose down and then later you'll be rewarded.” I would say a combination of hard work, diligence, commitment and courage, and then to really go for it. I don't know. It's going by fast, I’ll be 50 before I know it, which is why I just bought a muscle car.

Wait, what?

I bought a ‘69 Chevelle that I've wanted since I was 16.

Those are your words of wisdom?

In the spirit of what I said earlier about having courage to go for it, happiness is really important. It’s really paramount and you have to work for it. It's not a given. It's kind of like a daily practice, almost like a meditation in some ways. But I am happy to say that I am probably the happiest I've been in my life right now. And I think that you should make a go of that because sometimes, you're jumping through these hoops and lives thinking that these are the things that you're supposed to be doing to make you happy, but maybe that's not. It could be completely different. Right now, we just gotta be happy, which is why I'm back to my muscle car. I know how hard I'm going to work this year and how small the windows are going to be for packing in the joy and the happiness. So that's why I got the car. I'm like, let me find ways to create more happiness and more joy. Plus, I feel like it's really going to improve my dating life. [laughs]

She’s produced one of the most-talked about new Netflix docs. Here’s her advice for you.